First comment!!

This may sound cynical, but I haven't met anyone yet who has been truly altruistic. Maybe in simple minor things, but not truly altruistic. I'll believe it when I see it.

i believe that people are natually selfish beings...at our core, survival is the focus...not others...

however.

what makes us have souls,morals,a heart...is love..particularly altruistic and selfless..

i don't believe anyone can be completely selfless...that'd be silly anyway...

but it is the desire of my heart to love others, to put them before myself, to sacrifice if need be on my part to show them love and kindness

at the risk of sounding really cheesy..the world would be a better place if we all lived like that....

now can we all be like that all the time...no...it's all just one big and take...i care for you AND you care for me, not if, or instead of, or because....

no we care for others because that's what brings us joy

who can deny that bringing joy to someone else, even at our own sacrifice is not a deep personal joy?

From an tiny islamic point of view no we are not born believing in altruism. However we are introduce to that point of view in our religious upbringing. From the time I was six years old until today my parents have always told me to put other people before myself unless I feel it is wrong to put that person before myself but never to put anyone before god. At first I didn't understand what they ment by never putting anyone before god and what god told me to do, but I think I've finally figured it out. I'm pretty sure it means to not to help people whom I know will try to make me disobey god and to always break for my prayers even if I'm in the middle of helping someone.

Altruism is beneficial to both parties to an extent until the person who is at the recieving end takes advantage of the help and kindness of the person helping them. For example, if someone at our mosque is having money issues like having trouble paying bills or something they can talk to Brother Hussam and he'll get them enough money to pay the bill. But if the same person comes to him every month of the year with a bill problem he'll start asking to see the bill especially if he suspects the person is not giving charity (zakat) which is a pillar of Islam. The money that they have at the mosque is mostly used for paying the bills and creating programs for the kids to keep them out of trouble and if all that money is spent on the one person that "needs help with their bills" every month then all that stuff doesn't exsist anymore.

Sorry if I came across preachy, I ment to come off as informative, it doesn't always work though.

~Shanny

altruism is, at best, something that everyone should strive for; an unattainable ideal that denotes a great deal of empathy and care for your common man.

at worst [and unfortunately, more commonly] it's a badge to wear that makes you better than everyone else.

and there's never a clear seperation between the best and worst parts, as we're only human, and don't operate in terms of black and white.

at least, that's what i've seen [or experienced].

I am Majoring in Administrative business and pre-med and minoring in East asain Culture and languages...

I actually am someone very much known for doing this sort of thing. Putting others before myself and caring for them before I do for my own needs. However it actually isn't really healthy to do. For so long you do things striving to do good things for others but at the same time you really hurt yourself. I mean its a very big emotional strain that has led me to various bad results. Seems only recent months I've learned to be a little selfish, because really actually people need to be selfish sometimes. Indulging in your wants and desires may be selfish, but you feel a lot better after words. While for someone else you are trying to help them, but when you do you've done little to keep yourself happy. One may convince themselves that seeing others happy makes them equally as happy, but when you ignore your own needs and wants for it. You really destory yourself on the inside I discovered.

i think that can be true in some situations...it's impossible and stupid for anyone to be 100% selfless....but true sacrifice as a result of love for another person will bring you more "happiness" (i don't really like that word, because it's so temporary) and real joy than just doing something for yourself
now letting someone walk all over you and take advantage of you is not right and will hurt you


hm..i don't know how to articulate..i guess i just mean that taking care of yourself is important, and theres nothing wrong with it..but i think whenever the occasion arises, we should be prepared to sacrifice our current state to show love to another person whether that's as simple as opening the door for someone else...or a lot deeper like sacrificing sleep to take care of your child or husband..or just whatever...

i've found that bringing love and joy to another person made me more complete than if i had just done something for myself...

The idea is a wonderful one, and if it would be ideal if everyone could behave in a altruistic pattern. Of course this doesn't happen. My problem with it is, and not that this is a problem for everyone, but sometimes in becomes tendency to behave as you think others think you should behave rather than behaving in your natural state. Now I understand that it is ridiculous to believe that someone can be completely altruistic, however its not so hard to believe that with a certain person or situation, someone might literally do all they can for that person or because of that situation without asking anything in return. Altruism cannot be a blanket description of someone's life, but maybe of bits and pieces. People in one of these generous phases may be easily taken advantage of because, unfortuneately, not everyone thinks that selflessness is important. From one particulary altruistic experience, I can tell you that it was the worst and most hollow I have ever felt in my almost nineteen years of existence. Beyond that, my primary concern is as I stated before: because you do things for other people, and may sometimes be praised for it, you may fall into a habit of only doing those things that you think others are expecting of you. You aren't really thinking for yourself, rather the supposed thoughts of others are making your decisions for you.

If any of you are interested, there is, in my opinion, a great book related to this topic: The Fountainhead by Ayn Rand. Its a long read, but I enjoyed it.

Hmmm, I read Aaron's before mine, and he has a good point about beginning to act like how others expect you to if you're too altruistic....

I think altruism is vital in developing good relationships w/ the ppl around you or being a part of society. However, I don't think altruism is innate, I think it develops through experience, esp. at a young age if you have other siblings, and your parents enforce sharing, putting family first, thinking of the group, etc. Personally, w/ 4 other siblings, I feel like I have had to practice altruism my whole life. In fact, it's to the point that I sometimes feel like my happiness is being forfeited for the good of the group, which can be very frustrating. I should prob. work more towards equilibrium.... Anyway, there's my two cents....

Every action is on, a base level, selfish. But that doesn't rule out altruism as a type of collective, mutual selfishness. Yeah, it's engrained in us, but in a way most don't want to admit it.

I really can't say anything that hasn't already been said, but I did find several things that relate to previous discussions we've had.  Click on the link for a view on patriotism, and then keep clicking next for some interesting points on Atheism.

http://www.squidi.net/comic/tales/view.php?id=48

I just wanted to let you know that I was in a really down mood today, but then I read the answer to my question I asked a while back. It made me cry, but in a good way, because I realized that it's not worth being sad about...thank you. Really.

party friday at my house..its a double birthday party for brandon and i

Hey Moses,

I'm about to sort of close my journal at xanga in favor of a clean, slightly more anonymous but completely public journal on livejournal (traitorous, i know). i really appreciate your interest though, and if you want i can still add you for the ten days i plan on using my xanga if you want. Actually though, the reason i looked at your xanga is because i found you on facebook and we're going to be going to school together at KU, and living in Templin. So, maybe i'll see you around the dorm in a couple of weeks? Nice to meet you (sort of) anyway.

Cara

i don't have anything really to add to this discussion other than support for things that have already been said. people are instinctively selfish because selfishness is in a lot of respects self-preservation. for a person to have good relationships/interactions with other people there definitely has to be some altruism. It's very much a balance thing. Shadowonthesun95 suggested that it'd be great if everyone behaved altruisticly but at some point someone has to give and someone has to take - nothing would be acheived in a world where everyone's sole concern is others needs. My experience with altruism has been a lot like shadow's in that there's a point where you have to stop caring about others and let them resolve their problems themselves, because if they aren't willing to help themselves than no outside source can help them either, and in the end the altruistic party ends up feeling defeated and empty and neglects their own issues and progress.

The Fountainhead rec is a good one, although i haven't read it and probably wont for a long time just because several of my friends are obsessed with ayn rand and if i hear any more about her works i will lose part of my sanity.

i had a dream that you updated your xanga, which means you should probably update...